I’ve had this post in draft for a while, trying to find a time to write up some of the nagging doubts that are resurfacing about having our children in school. Debating the Paul Kirby blog post (a former advisor to the government) yesterday caused me to say, among other things, this:-
This man may have left his secondment but you can bet your bottom dollar it is discussed elsewhere too. And Gove just can’t be trusted not to say ‘I like this, make it so!’
And look, less than 24 hours later, Gove has the same miracle idea – keep all kids in school for 10 hours a day. I’ve linked to Sky as it has some of a video of him speaking, but the press of all shapes and sizes is erupting in discussion about his radical ideas. Twitter is alight; it comes to a pretty pass when I retweet Alastair Campbell.
It’s almost like he listened to that man who wrote a blog post. Or maybe, I guess, they’ve long been discussing these ideas in Whitehall.
I’m not sure what bothers me most about this; my kids arrive in school at 8.30 and rarely leave before 4.30pm. They do their lessons and they go to a school that doesn’t have a lunch break and they fill their after school with homework, netball, singing and dancing, CCF, music, trampoline and more. Fran spends a further 3 nights a week and a Saturday morning doing 16 hours of gymnastics at a club, Josie does 8 hours, Fran does 5 hours of dancing and she and Maddy play rugby on Sunday, Amelie does 5 hours of dancing too, they all play instruments, they all help out at home too. They are busy kids, learning to be meaningful humans but it is their choice to be at those places. And part of what makes them who they are is the choosing to do it.
I’m not clear (is he clear?) whether he means these ten hour days should be compulsory. Should it be for reception too? All the way through or just for some kids? Will ones with lives classed as fulfilling outside school be let off or will they have to give up gymnastics to attend a compulsory school club? Will they come home with more homework to do, all that meaningful poster making they do at the moment… Sigh.
And when am I supposed to see them? When will they play? Chill out? Eat meals with us? Read a book? Get to know each other? And should I be worried? After all, this is no longer just a former advisor writing a blog post, it’s the Education Secretary! Or shall I just hope that like Badman, Balls and Brown, he’ll be out of office before the hammer drops on our family life?
At least Kirby seemed to just be being a cold heartened economist about it – let’s get those annoying kids people insist on birthing and then don’t know what to do with out of their hair so they can work – but as an experienced teacher on my Facebook thread pointed out, this is not about parents flexible working hours, the key point here is the welfare of children. Gove seems to actually think he’ll be doing the kids a favour too. And he’s going to do that, apparently, by making all schools as good as those (£30K a year) private schools.
Okaaaaay.
I looked round a private school last week. I went to private school. Gove is NEVER going to make our state schools like our private schools. There is more to them (and they are not perfect themselves) than length of hours, facilities and attitude. They are infused with something you can’t easily inject into a state school for reasons far to complex to bother listing. And apart from anything else, they get very long holidays compared to our state schools. I just can’t see the likes of Kirby and Gove liking that idea.
I’ve had a passionate, hands on role in my kids’ education for their whole life. Sending them to school was a wrench and recently we’ve begun to re-evaluate that. Fran is fine, but in some subjects we now have to help her as she has fallen behind after being ahead when she started. She won’t do as well in her GCSE’s as she would in a different school, or maybe even at home. It makes me sad when I go to parent’s evening and hear her teachers aspiring to mediocrity for her. Maddy gains in social joy what she loses in brilliant teaching but Amelie is sinking fast. I’ve kidded myself for a while that at least they are in the hands of people who know what they are doing and then…
And then…
Fran is predicted an A* in Maths and that prediction was holding over lots of reports. In half term I asked her to do a practice paper to reassure me all was well. She could barely do 25% of it. I started to investigate and discovered the following.
Her prediction is based on her SAT score (at age 11) and her SAT score is on her record as 5A, so she gets predicted a GCSE (5 years later) of an A*. Only she never did SATS, so they took her very good CAT score when she joined them in Yr 9 and extrapolated backwards to guess what she might have got at SATs and then used that imaginary data to guess her GCSE prediction.
That’s pretty bad use of statistics I would say, but wait for this.
They don’t use current data (ie the marks she is currently getting in class, homework or tests) to make assumptions on her GCSE grade. So had I not made her sit that test, no one would have flagged up that she was not even going to get a D in an exam 5 months away. It’s lucky I did – and that she has able and interested parents who coached her in the 3 weeks before her mocks to try and remedy the situation. She missed a B by 3 marks.
And so it is because there are people making decisions like that in charge of our education system, that I think it is a good idea to be alert and questioning the words of anyone who has recently walked the halls of Whitehall. And because 24 hours ago I said that in a list of reasons to be wary, Gove should be on it twice just for the sake of safety. I’ll end with the statement I started with. I think it turned out to be justified.
I shall say this politely and only once, but any government that brings in 45 hour school weeks and 7 school holiday weeks a year will lose the pleasure of all my children’s company in the school system. And they are uppers of averages, so think on Policy makers.
PS Mr Gove, I think the tax contribution to a child in the state system is something like £1600 a year compared to even a cheapish private school being roughly £13000 a year. So, you know, good luck and all that.
I’m really torn. I did good primary, good at the time comp (although didn’t do as well as I might have if teachers pushed more), and private 6th form on scholarship. I actually agree with the idea of prep and more school activities – but then I was a child who did lots of music and sport at school, as well as like your children, lots of activities (dancing, music etc) outside. All by choice. I’m also a working parent with a child in nursery that I can only pick up one day a week by compressing my hours because my husband won’t share the load.
So I like the idea of more activities and more (play & social for younger, prep for older) wraparound care for those families who need it. However, I despair of standards and let’s face it, I have no idea how this would be paid for, and no teachers in the current system are likely to want to do it because they have families too.
I definitely don’t agree with it taking over current activities – for me the teaching and inspiration needs to come within the normal school day, not by extending the academic study side.
And testing. I’ve been through schooling where apart from weekly spelling and maths tests at primary school, and then normal lesson tests, my first exam was (by choice) my music theory grade 3 at 11. Otherwise formal exams weren’t until mock GCSEs. Personally I liked tests and was good at them, others weren’t. I do think teachers need a better understanding of their pupils ability to be able to teach at different levels, but not sure that national tests are the way to go for primary pupils. Testing isn’t the way private schools go apart from to set pupils/entrance if that’s applicable.
Gove can’t win, because whatever the good that can be found in his policies, there’s a lot of uncertainty and concerns. If all teaching was at a reasonable standard, and well rounded, focused on each child’s capabilities, there’d be a lot less need and concern when trying to bring in different ideas.
I have issues with being told what I’m allowed to with my children and centralised decisions to fit all. I support schools having more activities but they need to be voluntary for me. Family life is precious. And I struggle to believe this will fix all the ills, I fear it will just make it worse. I’m of the opinion that the need to make what is there already top quality before they lengthen it. More is not necessarily better. Compulsory is not necessarily effective. But more to the point, it’s economic pie in the sky I think. It just depresses me to hear the unachievable spouted like this.
I do wonder if Gove and his pals actually speak to real parents?Is he going to charge people for the extra hours? If it’s free that’s a bonus for working parents currently paying for after school childcare 🙂
On a serious note, my little ones wouldn’t last much longer than 3.15 at school and no way would I let them stay at school till 6, but if Secondary Schools can offer sports activities and the like till 6, then that could be a good thing for parents who can’t take their kids to classes? I’d want the choice though. I can’t see it actually working. Our local school certainly wouldn’t have the facilities to keep all it’s children actively and usefully entertained for all that extra time.
Good Luck to Fran in her GCSE’s, she is lucky to have such informed parents. xx
Maybe the sport etc at the girls school is good, unusually good and most schools aren’t already doing this. I find it a bit unlikely that it’s truly exceptional though and unless it is, shouldn’t he know that these things are on offer already. And choice is the key but for me. Maybe he only means it for senior school. 6pm is too late for most kids IMHO, I accept some manage it but even in my nights where they go to gym (proper coaches, proper equipment) I value the time I see them on the journey between and I can go and be there, be part of it. I’d not be churlish enough to sneer at more opportunities for more kids though. I still can’t see how it would be funded or how any school could offer the diversity several hundred kids would need, even if they were all alert, engaged and happy to be there.
I agree with everything you have written. I actually am a working mum. My daughter is currently at nursery, and even there I hate that I don’t know how she is in those few hours. At parents evening they talk about a child which isn’t the girl I know. I couldn’t let my children go to school every day for those hours, and I would home school for definite if it ever got that far. Great post xxx
It’s been hard to me to get used to them not being with me. I think it is often good for them. It just worries me we constantly assume more time in school and more tests and more pressure is right for our kids. And this feels like bandwagon jumping to win votes.
Compulsion – no, especially if already doing other activities.
Offer of wrap around care is attractive. Being a wicked part time (only 32 hrs/wk) female doctor who is not available 24/7 and therefore an all-round drain on the NHS, I try and cram too much into my hours and struggle to keep the 9-5 day exactly that. So children are in breakfast club from 8.15 and me running out of the door and speeding as much as i can to get them at 5.45 is the general day. I would love other activities to be available for them. Daughter longs to do dancing lessons but I can’t get home to take her to that. Ditto for beavers & sports for son.
Having said that there are plenty of families who don’t have the money or inclination to take their child(ren) to all of the activities that yours are lucky enough to benefit from and part of me thinks that offering more of a chance to these children to be able to experience these opportunities is a good thing.
I do pay £20 a day for the extra hours though and that may be beyond many people’s means so how this is funded is a good question.
As to the state school being brought up to the private school standards I thought I had read the plan was to get the higher rate tax payers to pay for this? But if I cannot afford private schooling for my children, how on earth am I going to afford state schooling if they charge the same amounts?
And what about the teachers. Do they want to be taking on these extra hours?
Soon as I heard this proposal my first thought was to wonder when you would be writing about it! 🙂
Sarah, that sounds tough. I can see the appeal of in house activities in that case. And I think it they were available for families that needed them, that would be great. I hope he clarifies his grand plan so we know if it compulsory (and if it will be things like you describe, not just maths club and extra posters to draw). Your last line made me laugh.
Mr Gove et al make me glad to be living north of the border. My mum is a teacher in England, mostly doing supply at a small rural primary (where I went to school). It is dire – expecting yr 1 children to recognise nonsense words. Ack.
But on the other hand, as a working mum the idea of extending the school day is really attractive. My eldest is at primary school in central Edinburgh (no. 2 starts in August). School starts at 0850, and both I and my husband work out of town. Pick up for P1 and P2 (equivalent to reception and yr 1) is 1450. From P3 onwards pick up is 1510. On Fridays the WHOLE school finishes at 1200. Yes, in Edinburgh children go to school 4.5 days a week!! (This is true for all state schools, primary and secondary). When I was at high school, I went Monday to Friday AND Saturday morning (and it never did me any harm…)
Given that most children in the UK don’t meet the recommendations for 60 mins of physical activity per day, I have a lot of time for extra activities which involve sport/dance or any form of jigging about – and if Michael Gove was going to devote the extra time in the school day to that, I would be the first to support it (and just think of the long-term health dividend that would bring). PE every day. Great idea. At my son’s school an active schools programme, run by the council, includes various before-school clubs/classes, including fencing, football and athletics. My son goes to football at 0800-0845 one morning a week, which means that my husband can get to work for 0900, rather than 0945 on the days when there is no before school football. It would be great if we could do that every day – if we wanted to…
Yes. I can see that. I definitely see the appeal of on demand high quality optional extras in schools as hubs. Home educators could access them too maybe, since we pay our taxes. I just wonder if that’s what he has in mind or if it will largely consist of crowd control and test prep.
I’m a teacher and mum to two boys , aged 4 and 6. I’ve been trying to write you a reply for days but keep deleting what I write as I just can’t get my feelings into words!. That man makes me so angry! He is ruining my career, spoiling the love that I have for my job and ultimately damaging the education and future of my own children and their peers! Luckily for now, the strb turned down most of his proposals including getting rid of teachers set working hours, so for now he is unable to extend the working day…but I think they will let the dust settle till after the next election then hit back hard! Thank you for speaking up for education, I am sure most of the country still believe we keep going on strike over our pensions, when the reality is that the last thing that we are striking for is ourselves!
Ps do you follow Michael Rosen’s blog? He has some good comments to make on our “system”