I think it is inevitable that this was going to happen in this house but it is certainly not unique. Over the years I’ve watched remarkably young early teens develop a keen awareness of their ability to take control of their life from within their own family. Of course, my experience of purely schooled teens is limited, except for my own self (and I suppose I was similar) but it does seem to be something that HE teens do particularly well.
Given we are a family with our own business, and given that all the girls have watched that grow from a single phone conversation and a single crate of goods to a business that employs 5 people and supports us from 3000sq ft of unit, I think being tempted into business was inevitable. All of them, when we were setting up our wills, were truly horrified at the chaps suggestion they should be barred from running it, if we died, until they were 25. They all pointed out very definitely, that they are part of it and if they were adults, they’d expect and want to decide what happened to it.
I think enterprise is an essential part of an upbringing, personally. I didn’t take part in our school version of Young Enterprise, because my teachers said I needed to give all my time to my lessons, but I went back to my school and helped a 6th form with their project a few years later. By that time, I’d been running my own tiny business for 5 years, enjoying the creativity that had the end point of someone valuing my work enough to buy it. One thing I struggled with though, and still do, was valuing my skill and time and charging people for that. It was the business skill I failed to learn, along with accounting (!) and clearly an essential one.
Fran has less of a creative urge on the face of it than I did, but perhaps she is driven in the same way by the joy of people wanting something you have made. Her foray into bracelet making has been hugely exciting for her and in the last two weeks she has not only sold lots of bracelets but improved a number of other skills. She’s more dexterous, more thoughtful about design, cleverer with colour and more able at putting together a collection of things to appeal to a variety of people.
She’s learned other more valuable skills too. Max has taught her how to adapt an Excel template to a profit and loss account and she’s spent time valuing the start up stock I gave her, putting a price on her time, working out real and virtual profit. She’s learned to use Flickr and Picnik to create display images that look good and her plan for next week is to not only take the pictures herself but also to learn to use Etsy for listing. She’s had to think out the real cost of a bracelet, not just the beads but also the fees and the time and the elastic and the amount of effort marketing takes. She’s an admin for the Facebook page and is learning about responsible ownership and how to network. She’s able to evaluate what works and what doesn’t.
As a business owner, it seems to me the world is polarising into massive business and tiny business. With the upheaval in our higher education system, I suspect many kids from families like ours will simply not be able to go to university through cost implications or will, as I did, choose not to. They may find it just as hard to get a job working for someone else and self-employment may well be something people will have to fall back on, if they can. I don’t see this as a bad thing particularly and I think home educated children, with their tendency to think outside the box, their expectations of utilising educational opportunities that are not pre-packed and their flexibility in learning, will excel at that.
For the last couple of years, Fran has been totting up the skills she is achieving that might get her through early life when she needs to make her own money. She already knows her gym and dancing skills will give her an ability to coach and teach if she now sticks at it and gets some qualifications and she knows that sticking with music to grade 8 will give her a saleable skill as well as an enjoyable one. It seems to me that developing business skills to support any creative urge or teachable ability are essential and probably one of the best lessons we can teach her just now. Fran has fairly strong ideas of what she would like to do, she’d like to work in a zoo, and she hasn’t written off university at all but she knows that we can’t support 4 daughters through a university education for the sake of it and she, and all the others, need to be prepared to do that for themselves.
I didn’t go to university, as I’ve said – I did a year of a vocational course that was spectacularly hard work, before getting ill and having to leave. My boyfriend at the time was at uni and I spent most weekends with him though and then 2 years with Max while he was at uni. I’m a bit boring, admittedly, but the idea of people spending parental and grant money to drink for 3 years seemed a bit of a waste and now, with the country in the state it is, I can see why that doesn’t exactly sit well with anyone paying the fees. I’m hoping that by the time my girls are ready to embark on that stage of their life they will be capable of working hard enough and earning well enough to at least partially support themselves through it. It seems to me that if they have to work hard for the opportunity and take responsibility for it, they will value it more and hopefully get more out of it.
Of course, I’m aware that has a risk. Max, for example, worked through uni and it was a small part of the reason for failing a year (beer was a bigger reason!) I would be sorry if my girls turned away from education purely due to cost, though I couldn’t argue if they decided against it for some of the reasons I did. I’d be sorry if they felt unsupported, but I hope they are all smart enough to know we have not a chance in hell of £9000 a year each for 4 of them. So I think that bracelet sales this week is part of a grander plan – it is partly, I hope, about equipping my biggest girl for life and helping her see she can make her own opportunities if she chooses to.
She’s made a good start, as we’re off to spend her profits on a new phone this afternoon. Apparently boring Nokia’s are too embarrassing to take out. Heaven help us.
Fran’s latest batch of bracelets are for sale on Etsy and we have a MadeMerrily Facebook Page too. 15 more likers of the page and one lucky fan will win a bracelet for free.
I’d love to know what other home educators think these days. Is uni still the be all and end all? Are we turning more to it or more away from it?
I went to uni and it was a complete waste of time (other than meeting my hubby). It prepared me for nothing. I studied business and finance, after spending 4 years studying the legal and financial aspects of business it was the last thing I ever wanted to do.
I imagine that the real joy of setting up a business comes fromt he idea and then the growth and nurturing that. The study of business is just so boring, as you only ever look at other peoples businesses.
Great bracelets, I especially like the vintage looking pick/cream one.
What truly amazes me is how I could go to uni with less maths and english ability than my 12 year old has now. What a shocker.
Would also like J to spend some time working before going to uni if thats what he wanted. I remember the mature students who were on my course being so much more grateful for the opportunity and they consistantly outperformed the 18 year olds who got drunk all the time. In the end their example made us all raise our game.
Thanks for blogging about this. It’s very informative.
I think Max would say he valued uni more for his years working first (he still tripped up but realised his error quicker i think) and I think I’d like my girls to work first, if they do go.
I really don’t think I could ‘study’ business now – theory has always driven me mad. I know I ought to value it, but I don’t :/
Glad you like the bracelets; the pinks have sold very quickly 🙂
Personally I don’t think uni *is* that important although for some career paths a degree is much needed. I guess it depends on what they want to do, lots of people go back to education ie OU courses at a later date. TBH with the ecconomy (sp) as it is i think its very important to learn how to make and manage money.
Yes, I’d say learn how to work hard and for yourself as skills, no matter what you end up doing. My teachers were horrified to find me working in a local supermarket, but it taught me many things, not least that I didn’t want to do it for the rest of my life.
I don’t think uni ever was, or ever will be, the be all and end all. For some people it’s great and for others a bit pointless. I suspect the same will continue to be true under the new funding regime.
I don’t know if my children will go to university. I think that one of them is quite drawn to the idea (having met a lot of politically active students) but might well go later than 18/19. Or might not end up going at all. I don’t know. It will be interesting to see how FE college influences that decision if teen sticks to her current plan to go to college at 16.
I don’t have a clue about business and if my kids run their own businesses then they’ll have to look elsewhere for support as I’m afraid it’s not something that calls to me! Luckily we have met quite a few home edders who do run their own businesses and who, I’m sure, will be able to advise.
I’m endlessly conscious that I don’t value that form of learning as much as I could. I don’t enjoy knowledge for knowledges sake, for some reason, and so it did seem pointless. I would go to learn a skill, certainly, if I had a calling, but wanting to know things seemed to get knocked out of me by endless rounds of exams. Perhaps it was that, or that my school/home didn’t value creativity?
I worry I’ll pass on that lack of love of just studying and knowing more to the girls but in this economic climate it seems an expensive way to gain a flimsy excuse for a job passport. Certainly though, at my school it really was the be all and end all.
And then, I’ve done all right without it – which makes valuing it, from my pov, harder.
Well now, as an academic, working and teaching in Scottish university, I’m bound to say (aren’t I?) that studying at university is great …. Yes, it is – and certainly 3 years as an undergraduate is – for many – a life changing time. And, and for some (like me, who spent 8 straight years studying – BA + 2 year Masters + 3 year PhD) it starts a career in academia itself. But, the way it was when I studied is very different to the way it is now.
Today most of my students are working – one undergrad is a civil servant, a lot of the postgrads are part-time students working in local government or the private sector, and many other undergrads work in bars and cafes and shops to keep themselves going. More and more of our students are older (e.g. not 17/18/19), an increasing proportion live at home and we are moving away from 3 years of full-time study on campus. Part time, flexible and distance learning are all real options for students – and not just through the OU!
It does really depend what you want to do – some careers are just not possible without a degree (e.g. teaching, nursing, town planning, civil engineering, dentistry, architecture, medicine, pharmacy). Uni is not for everyone – but then again, uni is not necessarily 3 years of drink/rugby filled mayhem living away from home in a rented hovel in the way it was 20+ years ago. I dont see any reason why some/all of your girls could not get a degree if they wanted. But getting a degree is different to going to university – and I hope that by the time they are ready for that level of learning the nonsense about fees and scholarships will be well and truly past… (better go before I start jumping up and down about that one).
Yes, I think I very much hope they will get degrees (and me too) but not perhaps conventionally. And because they want to, rather than feeling compelled to. We don’t live in a uni town, so certainly something would be likely to have to change.
My brother has not long ended a long uni existence – Durham then phd in Edinburgh; now he’s in Oz in another university. It is certainly an alien life for me, too much for me to imagine – I’ve got two family members who will have spent a significant portion of working life in unis and yet it appeals to me not at all!
I think university is important for certain career paths but it needs to be in combination. I think there are too many degrees that are unnecessary (some of the media ones for instance) but many scientific and academic subjects do need to be delivered at university level. I don’t think some of the art subjects do when an art college would suffice. Business is also a bizarre thing to study at university imho. It’s better to learn in the workplace and as an entrepreneur and then top up later with MBAs if you want to go into a higher level of management.
The OU is invaluable and ,many universities offer part-time courses for those just with an interest. It’s worth finding out about them. I can understand why the new Government has had to make cuts and so on but the way the media portrays them is inaccurate. It will still mean that many families will be able to afford university, rather than not afford it. It’s actually better under the new system because either way you need a loan. This way the loan doesn’t need to be paid back until you earn a certain amount which is higher than the last government had. If you do the maths most of us on a lower income are better off for our children.
I also believe that the universities who charge the top fees will be more accountable to their students and will also be charging that for degrees that they know will bring in a greater return for those studying them. At the moment there isn’t much to distinguish a degree for a fantastic institution from a rubbish one – there are so many and not all deliver the same quality. I think this shake-up may mean that the courses that are not run well and do not benefit our society or even individual learners will cease and I reckon that can only be a good thing. I’ve been to a number of universities (still not finished a degree but have loads of credits in a variety of subjects) and some of them have been appalling in terms of quality, whilst others have been amazing. If we become customers then the universities will have to have higher quality and ditch staff and courses that they know are no more than meaningless bits of paper for those who want to waste three years.
One of my great misgivings about how post 18 education seems to have altered in the last 15 years is this notion that any degree is something, even if essentially a fabricated collection of hoops to ‘prove academic worthiness’ – in combination with a culture that seems to have youth expecting to be given a living (and we’ve had a good few in our unit who do just that) it seems a worrying thing to offer courses in goodness knows what and pretend they are worth the debt because they’ll ensure a job. It is almost the equivalent of a housing boom bubble bursting to see that fall to nothing.
Agreeing with most of the others, it depends hugely on what you want to do. I’m not long out of university, but for me it was essential – I’m in science. I also had a brilliant time and learnt a huge amount, academically and otherwise. I went at 18, but none of my group of friends drank terribly much, and we all worked pretty hard. Not that we didn’t play hard as well, but it certainly wasn’t a few years’ fun and giggles at our parents/the taxpayer’s expense.
Fees are a relatively set thing, not something you can really economise on, but I do tend to think that the amount universities (and student unions) say you ‘need’ for living expenses is exaggerated, often by quite a lot. You don’t want to live in a dangerous, unsanitary place, so rent can take a fair bit of £, but after that, the official budgets tend to assume a lot of eating out, a fair bit of drinking and entertainment, far more on clothes, books, personal items, and incidentals than I ever spend, etc. So, if you do a little work during term – tutoring schoolchildren, babysitting, dog walking, working in a pub or library, etc. – that goes a long way in terms of weekly spending money, and if you can get a job in at least some of the vacations (again, virtually all of my set worked at least in the summer), well, it all becomes rather more affordable.
Well it is certainly Max and I lived his last year, including running a car, on £500 a month including rent but he didn’t have fees to pay. I was earning and he had a grant. It was tight though and there was not much room for spares or fun.
I think your list of things that you can ‘do’ sums up my point really; I’d like my girls to be equipped for seeing opportunities for supporting themselves without relying on people (other than as customers I guess) and having skills which lift you above ‘saturday job in supermarket’ are likely to be good.
My degree is, on the face of it, useless – it’s a combined BA (Hons) in English Literature and Media Studies, and as such, it prepared me for precisely nothing in terms of gainful employment. I don’t regret it for a minute. It was a purely academic course (the Media Studies bit was heavily focussed on Cultural Theory, and what amounted to Philosophy, which twisted my brain significantly – it wasn’t an excuse to run around town with a camcorder learning to make movies, though those courses exist), and it taught me to think, to analyse, to unite two separate concepts into one new idea, and it made me into the person I am today.
I don’t see education of children as being primarily about their economic viability in the future, I see it as developing their whole person in as many directions as possible. It doesn’t make much sense to me to see adult education differently to that.
Oh, and I do get grumpy when people (on the telly, mostly) imply that Media isn’t a real subject. It was much harder than the English!
I hope it hasn’t come across as only seeing them as economic units – I mean the reverse really. But education is about fitting for life as well as being knowledgeable and I do worry that some education does neither. You should see some of the kids we get on work experience :/
I’d like my girls to be fitted for life in a way that opens up any educational experience they want, rather than them being closed down as economically non-viable.
If you are well rounded, see yourself realistically and know your true worth, not what you think you are entitled to, that seems like the way to becoming a developed adult.
Oh, no, I didn’t mean to suggest that! Nothing you’ve said could be interpreted as seeing your girls as purely economic units, and I’m sorry if I accidentally said it did! I was just trying to make the point that the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake is worth something – a degree CAN be a good preparation for a career, but it doesn’t have to be, and isn’t necessarily any better or worse for being so; just different.
🙂
I guess what I was trying to say was closer to what Alison said, so much more articulately than I did… 😉
Both myself and husband went to uni. Me on a vocational course and he through science – BSc, Masters, PhD. In both our worlds it was essential but recent redundancies and threats of more have led to thoughts about what would potential alternative careers be and the answer is a big shrug of the shoulders. I am sure I must have transferable skills and my degree is highly recognised but I can’t see myself being good at anything else and have no idea where I would start looking. The way myself and peers were treated through training has done a great job of erroding a sense of worth so i can empathise with the problem of putting a price on your time and skills. The number of exams and hoops that I had and have to jump through has taken away the joy of learning and changed it into a weary necessity that I have to do in order to continue in my employment. I am in a vicious circle of not really wanting to read much work stuff at home but if I look at spending time doing other things then feel guilty that I’m not doing the work stuff. It feels like running to keep still and since I’ve been on leave for nearly a year have probably slid way backwards. I will not be encouraging my children to look to uni particularly if their skills lie elsewhere and they are not looking to the ‘vocations’. I am actively discouraging my eldest daughter from following my path as I don’t think it is the career that it used to be and I worry for it in the future. Thats not to say i dont enjoy what i do but to do it well is a full time committment. I would much prefer them to have a well rounded development with resultant work that they love than a mindless move from school to uni for the sake of a bit of paper.
Of my siblings, all but one went to uni and she works the hardest I would say. My brother did French and maths and never really got a job he enjoyed, jumped ship two years ago to have a year out and live the ‘good life’ and is now a rugby & financial coach for schools based on his loved hobby and self teaching, two sisters have science degrees – one married well and has no need to do much than holiday and buy shoes, the other works in an office whilst writing up her PhD and no intention of pursuing science and my brother with an engineering degree still lives at home, has little concept of being independent, has turned down jobs he doesn’t fancy(!) and so is in a dead end minimal wage job having signed on for ages. So out of 5, only 1 of us (me) is putting the degree to any use.
What uni did teach me was independent living away from home, responsibility for myself, budgeting and the worth of money as well as meeting people that I would never have mixed with otherwise, both good and bad. Not sure that in itself is worth £9000 a year though!
Sarah, this brought tears to my eyes really. You had such idealistic hopes once.
Perhaps I made it sound too gloomy. The job is great and I enjoy what I do but the whole system is now geared towards grinding you down which I see so clearly when we have trainees with us. I wouldn’t go through it now but it was very different even ten years ago and despite it all, I enjoyed the majority of my formative years. I have found a specialty where I still feel I can make a difference and my efforts are appreciated. I work with a good team who are extremely supportive of each other. Maybe it’s better as I left the NHS and work for a charity.
Given my time over I would be happy to still end up here but when I reach a place of having back time for me, I would love to learn something just for the sake of. Still not sure what I would have done without it, i know i wasn’t ready for the world of work at 18, and not sure I ever will be able to imagine as this job has been part of me for so long.
.
I loved university – I loved thinking about stuff just for the sake of it, and I absolutely loved being somewhere that was so full of ‘great minds’ for want of a better phrase (I’m not talking about the students, lol!), somewhere buzzing with life and intelligence and people wanting to know. I loved hearing about what people were interested in and what they were working on and so on.
And I’d love my children to have that opportunity. We won’t be paying the fees, the children will later on! I hope we will be able to fund their living expenses, but we’ve already talked about part-time work being a useful thing 😉 (When I was at college, it was very frowned upon to have a job, you had to get special permission.) Our mortgage will definitely be paid off before Buttercup would be of university age, and preferably earlier. And I hope that as they start their adult lives we will be able to help them as our parents have helped us.
Mmm… I suspect you had better access to great minds than some but yes, I can see the appeal. I think it would appeal to me now far more than it ever could have at 18, when I think I was all about avoiding thinking any more.
As for fees, watching my brother and sister cope with repaying those has been unpleasantly educational. I’m not totally convinced it has been worth it yet – maybe it will be for one. Seeing one leave the continent because his qualifications mean there are n jobs here for him has been sobering though.
Even our (fairly massive) mortgage payments won’t fund more than 1 or 2 girls though and it won’t be paid off until they are all done. Ugh.
Edited to add: I think this is what I worry about most. My access to this element of education was not good enough to see the great pluses- so how would I inspire them to go and what else will at a time when graduates are not getting great opportunities?
What a great and thought provoking post Merry. I am not sure that Uni is the be all and end all anymore in any educational setting. I love what you have been doing and have featured you today on my no need for the sunday papers http://www.muminthemadhouse.com/2011/03/no-need-for-the-sunday-papers-6/
Thank you very much 🙂