I’m procrastinating. I stayed up till 2am last night catching up on BM and tonight i need to do it all again. It is very exciting and inspiring to have such a busy period (and such very lovely and loyal (and addicted!) customers!!!!) but phew! i’m having trouble keeping up! Upstairs is a heap of stuff half done and i’m sat here wondering if i can sneak another stock order in tomorrow to patch up some of the holes already emerging in the cupboard. Rule of thumb is that if i have a busy period and say so, it then goes dead. 🙄 😆
I spent sometime wondering what sort of person i am exactly today; i glanced down my rss feed and discovered that it houses links to Spunky, and in particular this post and Twisty (pick a post, any post will do!) i can’t help feeling they are somewhat mutually incompatible and show i lack moral fibre somewhere 🙁 The phrase from Spunky has been reverberating around my head all day; now, i’m not remotely interested in swatting the particular person who has said it, he’s clearly going through a terrible time for one, he has a right to hold his memory sacred and well.. each to their own anyway. But… but…. well, it’s summed up for me a feeling that i don’t feel at home anywhere, that i fall resolutely into a camp of womanhood that has no name.
I don’t know. I can’t imagine a marriage where i was being given permission to “submissive myself equal;” Max just doesn’t see me that way and on the odd occasion he has pulled a high hand (mainly over money because let’s face it, i’m dumb with it) I’ve got angry and vocal and rightly so. But then, i have my own places where i have the highest hand, the children for one. In the end, what i say goes. I get the last word.
I gave marriage very little thought in someways, it’s true. For me it has been the absolute model of family life always; there isn’t a widow/er or divorced couple in my family anywhere. But despite not giving it much thought, i didn’t go in with my eyes shut. I have an unusual background in some ways, a stay at home dad and a career mother, parents with an extremely modern marriage and an extremely equal one, where the jobs were delineated by ability, not gender. Mum always did the plumbing and electrics, Dad always did the decorating; Dad liked to play with the kids, Mum went back to work when my brother was 2 weeks old, popping home to feed him between lectures. I played with molecular structures as a 5 year old, encouraged to eschew needlework and cookery. My brother is one of the most gentle men i have ever known. I have a sister who is the main wage earner in her partnership, i have chosen to follow my Dad’s model almost exactly.
I can’t say i see myself as anything particularly gender defined. I hate cars, and mess and grease; fortunately Max doesn’t, so he fixes greasy, messy cars. I happen to like sewing and be good at it, so i sew up his pockets. I don’t like to cook, so he does because he does like to, he doesn’t like to decorate, so i do. Fortunately for me, i’ve rarely come up against sexism and when i have it’s been almost laughable; fortunately for me, i enjoy many of the things that nature, nurture and the genderising of history have served up for me. But when i chose marriage, i don’t feel i fell blindly into some form of subjugating contract at all; i chose to leave a name behind entirely deliberately because i wasn’t especially proud of that person. I chose to assign myself to a contract of partnership because that afforded me an identity and sense of self that had been lacking. Whatever else my marriage is at times, i don’t believe it is anything less than utterly respectful and equal. It isn’t about the history of controlling women for me, it was about a promise to one another and a binding of a future.
It disturbs me though, if wifely-motherdom is defined by submission to be granted equality. I don’t belong in that side of the Venn diagram. I cannot form an allegience with women who allow freedom to be granted. I don’t believe it has anything much to do with religion either, the Bible is many things but it was largely written by men and frankly i can’t forget the bias that is entrenched in it because of that simple fact. There are women in the world who allow men to tell them they can be granted freedom by being good. Won’t do. I am not one of you.
And yet, and yet… I’m not one of Twisty’s sisters either. What are the politics of the married mother? Where do i stand against people who believe that all marriage is subjugation, that all babies are bloodsucking parasites and that if you don’t get it, you are just in the wrong camp without even knowing it? Twisty would say i belong with Spunky, Spunky would say i belong with Twisty. I’m under no thumb and yet i love and honour and respect my husband and our partnership and our equality, just as he honours and respects me.
It feels, as it has felt so many times in my life, that i’m kicking my heels in the place where the two circles cross and that the place has no name, as it so rarely has for me. I kick my heels between belief and non-belief on the diagram of religion too, on the diagram of politics i sniff and snort at times but i don’t seem to find a passion for one side or another. As a parent i’m neither libertarian nor its opposite. I’ve gone through my life feeling i don’t quite belong and i still don’t.
This might mean i’m moderate, or it might mean i’m directionless and ill-informed. It might mean i’ve found a middle way, or it might mean i’ve lost my way. It might mean i’ve stepped off the path but i think perhaps i have never found it. Increasingly i feel bothered that i’m running out of time for finding ME and finding my slot and my take on life.
Yesterday i was driving along and Amelie kicked the back of my chair hard, hard enough for me to think “eeek!” for a brief second before i realised i wasn’t dead. I had this moment of Prachett-ism and imagined Death arriving and saying COULD YOU JUST COME THIS WAY and me thinking “Oh damn it, there were so many things i hadn’t decided about yet.” I’m rushing along being busy and i’m not finding time to really work out where *I* stand. I’m sure there is more to me than a random assortment of half finished projects and thoughts. How come i missed out on having a life philosophy? It has to be more complex than being a Capricorn and therefore boring, surely? I seem to have reached a point where i feel rather guilty that i’ve arrived at a place i feel comfortable in without any angst-ridden academic process to get myself here.
I’m a bit busy this year and i have a long list of goals i really want to achieve. But *next* year i’m dedicating to some personal exploration of some of the issues i don’t feel i’ve got well enough informed about or made up my mind on yet. I feel it’s time.
Wow! Powerful stuff! Given me some food for thought.
Interesting post. No time to respond today or indeed this weekend, but will be back next week.
An interesting post indeed. Especially this:
‘But then, i have my own places where i have the highest hand, the children for one. In the end, what i say goes. I get the last word.’
I think Twisty and Spunky are two extreems. Most of us are somewhere inbetween them. You aren’t sweet little doormat material, neither are you bitter adn twisted material. you are you. Enjoy it. If you ever get 2 mnutes to yourself explore just what that means. But don’t ever think you need to fit a mould to “belong”. You have a loving hubby and 4 gorgeous gals, you have acheived so much more than many. Enjoy it 😉
I don’t think I’d place myself in between the two extremes of Spunky and Twisty. I think I’d place myself on a different planet. I don’t find either of them to be people I’d particularly want in my life (or on my planet, given a choice).
You should be proud to have a link to Twisty on your site Merry. I can never fault Twisty’s uncompromising logic – uncomfortable as it makes me feel sometimes. Spunky talks nonsense, particularly in the post you link. Maybe there is a gem of wisdom in there but she talks so much hogwash I don’t hang around much on her blog to find it. I can and do spend hours trawling Twisty’s blog though.
You are right about the Bible Merry, the same thing applies to the Torah and the Quran as well. The whole world is a patriarchy and most religions are just an extension of it. (Read more Twisty!)
I’m trying to imagine the sort of planet that doesn’t contain either radical Christians or radical feminists. What sort of radicalism would there be in this world I wonder?
Why is that bit particularly interesting Chris? The moment which springs to mind for me there is the Amelie/nursery debacle. It is pretty rare for me to really go against gut instinct and do something that Max felt needed to be done when it comes to the childrens daily life. But on that occasion i did and we are still paying the price for it really; she’s remarkably angry about it even now. I spend more time with them, it is me that has to react to most moments and make decisions, so it is me that gets the end word. We don’t really have time to discuss each thing endlessly. So i get the parental last word really, between me and Max, not necessarily over the children. I do try to listen to them and make decisions based on what they want. In terms of me and Max though, surely it would make sense for it to be me that is the major decision maker over the childrens’ life.
For example, if my life outlook changed dramatically and i decided they had to go to school, it would be me, in the end who had to make that choice. Max would leave it to me. on the other hand, he would never try, nor ever be allowed to make that decision for me.
I don’t really read Spunky for her wisdom, but i often look at her links since it seems mildly worthwhile to see what the world is doing HE wise.
Simon, was that you or Layla? :)Scary indeed what the world might have instead of those radicals i guess though. Not totally sure about Twisty still; very interesting i agree but i find that level of anger very unnerving.
’tis Simon.
To clarify my “radical” comment. When people say they don’t like a particular radical view you can bet that there are some radical views they would agree with and would like to hear more of. I’m sure that some people would rather not have to listen to ANY radical views but personally I think that hearing radical voices (even if I strenuously disagree with them) gives me a valuable sense of perspective.
As for Twisty – yeah she’s angry! I admire her anger because it is so pure – she doesn’t have to compromise becasue she is in a situation where she doesn’t have to! A lot of what she says is hyperbole but it always makes frightening sense and clarifies her worldview that ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING that is wrong with the world is the fault of the patriarchy because the world IS a patriarchy. I read Twisty because she makes me consider my position as a man and how I view women (and highlights my consistent shortcomings) and because she writes very well. I think most of her anger is justified to be honest.
What un-nerves you about her anger? If you read something that un-nerves you enough to make you think about the subject being written about then that is a good thing is it not?
It is a good thing.
I suppose it unnerves me because i can see plenty of truth in it and yet it makes me feel that my actual life position (wife and mother) is untenable with my life view (gender is irrelevant, everyone is equal, if different).
If i had a profound area of disagreement with her (or actually, to be honest her commenters) it would be that i think the men in my life are pretty great (Max, my brother, my BIL, the various Chris’s and other dh’s/dp’s and you not least) and i can’t really bring myself to mentally hurl any vitriol in the direction of any of you. I don’t hold men now responsible for the carting off by the hair and raping till pregnant past, nor most of the other ills of the world. And like the Bible needs viewing with circumspection, i find that argument overlaid with so much disdain for men, or for women in my life position, loses a certain amount of clarity for me.
Doesn’t stop me reading though and i’m feeling progressively more challenged by it, in a good way, not a negative way. I just feel like i’m having these conflicts about 15 years late!
Well it’s interesting in that I don’t think in our relationship that either A or I presume to have the last word on anything. In other words, if we disagreed on something, it is likely that a choice would need to be made that would be in line with one view more than the other. That ‘choice’ , in my mind at least, is not pre-determined by the subject that is in dispute.
I don’t see why, for example, if Max had well thought our reasons for sending them to school with which you disagreed that your point of view should carry more weight *before* you try and resolve such a scenario. Starting off a debate between individuals where one holds a ‘casting’ vote, to me, seems slightly odd.
Much as I admire Twisty, the comments are so sycophantic sometimes they make me want to puke.
She is strong follower of Dworkin so there is going to be a lot of stuff in there that makes everyone feel uncomfortable.
I’m aware of the sort of posts you’re talking about. When she talks about men (all men) being responsible for a particular patriarchal ill she always asks all men who might email her to protest to answer some simple questions about their own attitudes first before protesting. The main thrust of what she is saying in these situations is that men benefit from a patriarchy and even if men disagree with sexism, there will always be some part of themselves that enjoys the patriarchal status quo and which will make them reluctant to reject patriarchal society entirely – therefore they are responsible etc etc. Likewise, she believes that any woman who doesn’t reject the patriarchy entirely is complicit in the ultimate oppression of the female sex (although she generally has more patience with complicit women than with complicit men – fair enough I think).
You may not agree with her but she is fighting fire with fire. In nearly all cases the particular issue she is dealing with involves an absolutely blatent display of sexism or patriarchal arrogance that really does need to be addressed. So she gets angry – personally I don’t get offended about the rare instances she makes a stand against all men; I understand her general point. If Twisty’s stance puts you off her message then you should read someone who has a more compromising viewpoint.
Her blog is also damn funny.
Well, i see your point, but it comes down to the same thing in my mind. I don’t automatically assume i HAVE the last word (i haven’t had the last word on whether we have more children for example, because his line of reasoning has more logic than mine) but in practise, when it comes down to the day to day life of the children, i tend to have the last word, because my day to day life is moe bound up in theirs. Obviously i don’t disregard his viewpoint (otherwise Amelie would never have gone to nursery) but i think that as decisions affecting their life affect mine more than his, it is fair enough that i make the weight of the decisions.
Equally, recently there have been job decisions; we’ve talked long and hard and from both points of view, but in the end the job he does affects his 9-5 more than mine so he gets to make the ultimate decision, hopefully with my support or at least understanding.
If Max had a good reason for sending them to school, like for example that they were unhappy at home, it is pretty unlikely that i would disagree anyway. It might alter my life to send them, but i’m not likely to be happy if they aren’t. On the other hand, if (as he orginially did when we first decided to HE Fran) he suddenly decided they HAD to go at 11, just because he felt they should try it, i think i would have the right of veto on that, especially and most particularly if the children didn’t want it either.
So yes, you are probably right; like you we don’t necessarily have right of final decision by subject matter absolutely, but it does often come down to that in practise.
“If Twisty’s stance puts you off her message then you should read someone who has a more compromising viewpoint.”
Mmmm… i think this might be the blog i’m looking for, trouble is…who writes it?
Actually, i DO like Twisty, i’m not against her or i wouldn’t be bothering to read. She is very eloquent – one of my faults is getting swept along by other peoples’ passions and eloquence and i feel i need to start finding my OWN viewpoint a little more, that is what i feel i am lacking.
Try BitchPhD:
http://bitchphd.blogspot.com/
or feministe:
http://feministe.us/blog/
or even better redneckmother (if you haven’t come across her already in the HE world):
http://redneckmother.blogspot.com
This feels slightly surreal; I’m a man suggesting feminist blogs to a woman. This is the sort of thing that would get me crucified by Twisty! My disclaimer: I make no comment about the feminist credentials of any of these blogs – they just happen to be some I enjoy reading.
I’m not sure Twisty is the absolute opposite of the example given by Ruth. Twisty is extreme and we may not share her opinions but she doesn’t regard women as superior or men as inferior which would be the “literal”* opposite of the women who always seem to defer all judgement to men. She just hates the patriarchy!
* (She’s probably about as opposite as you could get without going down that road though!)
The more she practiced biblical submission, the more she became my equal.
That one sentence makes me feel sick and is the very reason I cannot tolerate the, so called, biblical view of marriage which I witness with my parents for 45 years.It was enough to make you scream. As you say the bible was written by men and men -like women -are not without faults, weaknesses and human failings. They are not here as some hierachy over us. I have read blogs were women have deferred to dh in the obvious and glaring face of him being competely wrong cos they believe he is “over them.” I find Twisty the opposite extreme so I suppose I fall into the middle ground too. I don’t disregard dh but I have an equal voice and it has never been any suggestion I had to earn it by bibilical submission. You may have gathered you have just hit my rant button. I have few but this is one of them LOL.
The world is not divided into radical feminists and fundamentalist Christians Merry! You say you don’t feel like you fit in, but don’t you think you’re actually in a rather large majority?
And um – “there isn’t a widow/er or divorced couple in my family anywhere” – no one in your family ever dies??? I don’t imagine you meant that sentence the way it came out – perhaps more than one thought short 😉
I so need to get a divorce.
Well, not unseasonably, only occasionally due to old age. In fact so far, touch wood, the only person who has died in my close family and left a partner was my grandad and he was in his 70’s. I thought the sentence described adequately that i don’t come from a family made up of anything much other than traditionally made and undamaged nuclear families. Max is the only person i’ve ever been close to who has had his family structure pulled apart for any reason. And then there are no divorced families, no gay couples, no single mothers. We’re very “normal”; except that “normal” is virtually abnormal! Family structure was never a challenge to think about. i seriously kicked over the traces by getting married 6 weeks after having a baby!
Yeah, more than one thought short but not without reason; i know i’m part of a large majority but actually i’m rather unimpressed with my stance, i’d like to feel more motivated about my life politics. Surely everyone has to start somewhere?
I know it isn’t divided into 2 parts, i may not be desperately academically inclined these days but even i’ve spotted that 😆 I just found myself thinking that it was somehow disappointing that i had two very extreme blogs on my rss, ones that interested me, but no blogs of a similar sort that actually “spoke” to me. I can roll my eyes quite heftily at them both, i’d like to feel at home on one that made me think without rolling my eyes. Far too hard to read for one thing 😉
I was just pontificating, thinking aloud about some of the things i’d like to explore more now that i’m not going to be a baby machine anymore. If that isn’t what a blog is for, there isn’t much point in having it! I’m bored of writing “today we did normals.”